The Chat
The Chat
#36 The Power of Art and Passion: A Conversation with Brad Warren
Part 2 of Carlos's conversation with Brad Warren, on half of the hit songwriting duo The Warren Brothers.
Ever wondered what the journey of a song looks like, from the writing room to the radio? Well, my good friend and Grammy-nominated songwriter, Brad Warren, is here to unravel the mystery. Together, we navigate the intricate process and share stories of unexpected breakthroughs in the music industry - like how rapper Connor Price and his wife spun a globe for their next collab decision and powered through electricity outages in Zambia.
As we wade through the world of rhymes and records, we explore the traditional music industry versus the newer, more creative forms of art showcase. Brad and I swap notes on the potential of AI, the power of mentorship, and lessons from the successful young songwriter, Ernest. We also delve into the appreciation of passion as we discuss Elon Musk's achievements and remind ourselves that it's vital to stay curious, not envious.
If you've ever chased success or felt overwhelmed by it, our chat on balancing success and downtime will resonate with you. We stress the importance of having a well-structured day, managing time, and pushing past comfort zones. We cap off with heart-warming stories of finding perspective, inspiration from others, and how small decisions can create significant impacts.
Check out Brad's podcast, The Good Grief Good God Show: https://goodgriefgoodgodshow.com
Hey guys, this is Carlos. This is part two of my chat with my very good friend, brad Warren, grammy nominated and a number one hit songwriter here in Nashville, tennessee. Enjoy.
Speaker 2:It is not, you write it. If you wrote it without an artist which is most of the time, most of the songs we write you have to pitch it to the artist that you've had to have known for 20 years to have their number to pitch it to them. Or you pitch it to a record company to put it into your publisher, which literally almost never works for us. So we're trying to find an artist. You get it. If you get it to the artist or the producer, the producer plays it for the artist. They like it. That's a miracle. You've written a song and this producer an artist. They like it. Then they play it for the management company and the record company and a room full of jackass and sits at a table and decides if your song is going to beat out the 200 other songs that we've got in the pile for this.
Speaker 2:If it happens to be one of the 12 songs that beats out the other 200, you get to put it back in our day on the CD. That's a miracle. That's a miracle that it got past all these goalies. Then it's on that CD and it was back in the day. You know you had to go Walmart and your song was on the CD on in Walmart and sometimes your name was listed on the back cover of it because they had the songwriters on. And that was a miracle and it was amazing. And then somebody had a meeting, because the artists usually get three singles per album and they say this song should be a single and this same group of jack asses sits in a room and decides whether your song gets to be a single set. Now they invite in program directors from all over the country to put their two cents in their idiots too. And then if your song gets chosen, it gets to go to radio. That's another miracle.
Speaker 2:It has to work its way all the way up from number 150 all the way up to get to number one, and you know how many people had to be convinced, how many people had to be bribed, how many leaning on favors and things that people do to get a song up to charts number one. It's unbelievable, and so when you're, when you're writing with that, with that journey in mind, it ruins it a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't know the journey at first yeah, and we was really, so you just go yeah, isn't that funny once you, once you know what the boundaries are, how scary it could be. And I've, I've definitely been guilty of that. When I look at people that I'm like how the freak did they make it? How did they do? Because I know what level that they're at as far as the writing goes and their storytelling is subpar and it, and I am not. I am not Hemingway, I will freely admit that man, I am happy to be somewhere in the middle. Yeah, you know, I know I. You know some people say that I write thrillers with heart. I'm cool with that man, I really am. But it's like, you see, I'm curious what you think about this. So I one of my favorite podcasts the other day, interviewed a husband and wife team.
Speaker 1:This guy his name is Connor Price. Okay, he was an actor growing up, you know, was in some things that we've probably seen. Well, he's a white guy who has always been always loved music, and so during COVID he started experimenting. He wanted to be a rapper. Right, like he did great, great, like fast raps, and at first he was doing it under like kind of a pseudonym, you know, kind of I think it was like literally called anonymous or something.
Speaker 1:This is somebody's gonna skewer me for actually knowing the facts on this one. Well then, his wife is like, because they've known each other since they were 10, she's like you should put this under your own name and try not to be anybody else. You are a white kid, right be you, and so he is. He started doing like sketches. He did this one where it was like a sketch of like, you know, turning up, turning a carrot into a flute and then what that sounded like, and then he turned it into a song somehow, because he's funny, right, he turns, he does a little sketch. It made me think of you, because you and Brett together cracked me up, did a 15 to 20 minute sketch and then that segues into a song. Dude, you know how many streams this guy's going.
Speaker 1:I can only imagine, I mean like 80 million at a time. And here's a deal they haven't signed. They don't want to sign any deals with anybody because they own it all and every penny that they make is coming into them. But you know, I really like them. This guy is not just they're not keeping it to themselves, they are collabing with all these people that they meet and helping them out along the way they.
Speaker 1:He did this. One of his biggest hits it may be his biggest streamed hit is called spinning or spinning, and he did this little gag where he spun a globe. They went and bought a globe, like, literally, they tell a story. They drove by target. They were trying to come up with their next skit. They're like all right, I'm gonna spin a globe and, you know, put my finger on it and I'm gonna collab with an artist from that place. And it was like Zambia or something. He's like I didn't know where Zambia was and plus, they'd already picked it, but so they had to do like a hundred takes for him to spin it and get on to that so that he collabs with this, this Zambian, like hip-hop artists, right, well, come to find out over there, they don't have electricity all day so this guy could only stream, you know certain. So there were all these constraints. Well, they make this, they do this, and it becomes this huge deal. So then all of a sudden, people our eyes on, and so they are. They're a building something that not only is outside the norm, right outside of traditional publishing, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:There I feel like and I don't know them personally, I want to meet them after I heard them for an hour and I'm listening to everything that they're doing. They're helping other people. They seem to be doing it the right way and the guy love. They love what they do, right, they love music, they love the process, they're having fun doing it. You know, he's like I'll be laying there and bed at midnight and I have this idea for a sketch and I'm just like I gotta go do it right now.
Speaker 1:So I grab my phone and I grab my equipment and I just go do it and there's something about that excitement like how do you kind of weigh the, the old world I'm gonna call your world the old world what you came up in with the, the, the tick-tock stars who have become, you know, who would become like major players in the music world now, because I know some people that are really bitter about it.
Speaker 1:They're like they didn't come up the traditional way, they didn't knock on the doors, they didn't do all this, whereas I see it potentially as they're just finding a different way to get their art out there, which is what I did too. I I kind of cheated the system right, according to some other people, because I've I've met other people in my world who do not like the way I did it. They don't like the fact that I came up with my own website and promoted my own stuff like I should have gotten an agent and then a publisher and all these things. I went outside the norm no, it's brilliant how do you guys feel about?
Speaker 2:it interesting. You have actually helped me without a lot. We were like, okay, well, let's say, let's just pretend like AI is not the enemy. You put chat GPT on my phone and we start I've used that, but not now. I I'd be honest, I know it would be a more effective tool if I knew more how to use it. I need to. I could go everyone's got rhyme zone, I don't need. I don't need another word. What I need is another thought. So I but learning how to use it. I'm like, oh, I get this I have. There are some words and songs over the last three months that wouldn't be there if you hadn't put chat GPT on my phone, because I'm like, oh, it just opens up another, even if I don't see the word. This word makes me think about this word, which makes me think about that word, and it winds up in the song and it wouldn't have been in there before. It's easy for me to get into the conversation where the get off my lawn. You know, get an agent you need. It's interesting. But when you told me that, I'm like that is. Here's something that I would lack is the go, start your own website. And I wouldn't have done that I'm like that's, that is what it takes, and today's now.
Speaker 2:I was also grew up at a time where there was the social media, what by the time it was to happen, and I was in my 40s and I just, I just didn't care. And then that now I mean honestly, I'm doing a podcast and writing book. I really should have been, you know. So now, all of a sudden, we're trying to still have my own account. But the Warren brothers have an account and good grief, good God, has an account. I am trying to be open to the new way of and doing anything which is good, and at the same time, I have decided that I am not going to do a whole lot of this like backfire, because there's always some kids that have become stars I did this with, but I'm not necessarily going to carry some bozo across the finish line. It doesn't have any talent. Yeah, just because he has a lot of tiktok followers and I'm probably gonna be wrong for that.
Speaker 2:The truth is, open it up, because I'm already thinking of one that's this song has already become, and if something they weren't talented, they just they hadn't paid any dues. Yeah, there's an artist out that's doing very well. I'm gonna leave it at that. And they didn't pay any dues and the first two songs were big hits and streamed a gazillion times in there and so green, some of the most ridiculous things that they said while we were trying to write a song, as they didn't know the rules, and we're sure they did. It's one thing to not know the rules. It's another thing to not know the rules and be convinced that you're right about something. Yeah, that's different. So it is a little bit strange.
Speaker 2:I would love to say man, just put me with the young guys. I do love being with the young guys. We have signed a lot of young guys, the earnest, whose Morgan Wallins, number one co-writer and along with Hardy, I guess, and his own artist career is doing very well. Brett and I literally found him and working at the doughnut den and signed him and he's good friend and you know it's funny because we don't write with him that much anymore and it's because I don't want to. I want, he's gotta have. This is his era. Yep, this is his. I'm 20 years older than him. Yeah, we, if I wanted to write something with him, if I have a reason for us right, we would go do it, but I want to let him spread his wings and do his thing.
Speaker 2:I do believe in mentorship. The book you're talking about, arthur Brooks, from strength to strength, is life-changing, giving you permission to get into that role. I love to mentor and to try to help people, and it's funny to help somebody who's doing better than you ever did. Yeah, ernest is killing it. Yeah, he's killing it. As a songwriter, I'm like he's got almost as many hits as we have in our career, and it's been six years. You know, that's pretty cool, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah and man, you have to like start loving that and stop, stop the comparison thing and and the idea that, oh, they don't do it in the right way and I don't have that. But sometimes With anything new, when people are coming in, some things come in and they're gonna last, and some things come in and they're not. And when I can see that they're not, I Don't want to be a negative guy, I don't. I don't want to be a negative occasion. I'm like I'm not gonna prop this thing up because it's not real, yeah, and I so occasionally I will just go no, we're not doing that anymore. It's okay, and we're trying to write less and do less anyway, and I do like being with younger guys, but I don't want to just write with every totally artist that comes on the pike, cuz then you get spread thin and then you feel like you're chasing around the next hit and I just We've never been that great. So it's. That's an interesting question. I don't have a really good answer to it.
Speaker 1:What I'm hearing is with the right person. It's a, it's a good fit, and I totally agree with that. I mean, you know, I don't, I don't do. I do deep dives on the on things. You know that about me.
Speaker 1:And I've done deep dives on tick tock in the music business and publishing business and all that sort of thing to see who's out there and who's doing what and you can kind of tell who is. You know who the flash in the pan. People are like like the, the island boys, for example. I don't know if you've even knew they were huge with one one little hit on, on, on, on tick tock, I think it was. And then they went and did a live show and everybody realized they couldn't sing and then it was complete shit, right? Well then you got a guy like Connor Price, who, who In his own way, oozes talent.
Speaker 1:Right, the camera likes it. I mean, he's a short white guy. In the real world he would never be signed. You know, that's just a fact. You know he cut his teeth in Hollywood. You know acting and and and and, doing scripts and doing shows and all this stuff. And he's then brought that talent over to a different place. I like that social media and technology allows us to do stuff like that now right, and that you can find in and actually show off talent like that. That's that's interesting. That being said, I'm curious. You mentioned paying your dues a couple times. I I have my own thoughts on that, like how much is enough dues to pay, or how do you even define that, because I I've Also heard top executives say the same thing and I feel like it's an arbitrary thing that people just throw out there and it really doesn't mean shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good. That's actually a really good point, because so I watched a documentary the other day on Logan Paul. Yep, the Paul brothers. Yeah, so how many years ago was that? That started? Five years ago. It's ten years ago. Ten years ago, maybe eight, my youngest son, who's now 19. So it's probably, he's probably 12 or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, these guys are making millions of dollars being youtubers. I'm like, no, they're not. No, not this, that doesn't. First of all, I've never been done. You're on YouTube. No, you're not. You're just showing your friends stupid YouTube videos. Well, meanwhile, he was right, yeah, I was wrong.
Speaker 2:And these guys they're, by the way, easy to hate, but they're they really carved, like you did with your website, and they carved new territory. They, they were Idiot youtubers bringing back to sport of boxing, and you can hate on them if you want, but they, they were inventive. So I don't think paying your dues has to be a number of years or a thing that you did, but if you don't have an original thought, yeah, jackass that car, I mean lover. Hate Johnny Knoxville, that car of new ground. Yep, they went for something that hadn't been done. As a matter of fact, our friends from high school called us Brett, nice it. Oh, my god, these guys are doing what you did, naturally, and they're huge. She should have been filming all this and I think it took that as a huge compliment at the time. But if you're, if you're carving new ground and you have something to offer and it's inventive, it's just that when you're offering rehash stuff and you're and you're, so what I say pay and dues give me an original thought. Why do I care about you other than here? Well, here's what's happening too is record companies and managers who have big clout are signing people because they have a lot of followers, for for boat racing, yeah, and putting them in record deals.
Speaker 2:And when I say you haven't paid your dues, I haven't heard any music, you aren't ready to make music? Yes, because you haven't. So you've got it because you have a bunch of followers doing one thing the Peter principle applies here You've found some, some music. People found you and, by the way, some of the record companies in our lovely town had just been searching tick tock to see the people with the most music going and getting them. And can you sing? I Know I don't love that. Yeah, I'm not ever gonna love that. Yeah, if you don't love this shit. If this doesn't, I Couldn't do anything. I couldn't think of anything but music from the age 10 to 40 35. So I got sober.
Speaker 1:I started thinking about I.
Speaker 2:Was not doing anything else. I had nothing to fall back on. We always said if you have something to fall back on, you will. I put the hours, the time and you don't have to do it like that. I'd also told Taylor Swift at 14 that I didn't think anyone cared about songs about high school. I still love that story, by the way. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I don't claim to know everything, but I'm my own personal life and and and what I'm gonna do with my time. I want to find someone who loves it now like I loved it then. Yeah, maybe I don't love it anymore as much. I love information. Now I'm an older person. I want information. I like to increase my knowledge. I have to say most music doesn't challenge me musically. I've played every chord, I've written all the lyrics. I want to challenge myself and I do occasionally hear something. I'm like oh my god, that is an amazing song. There's a song by this girl, ingrid Anders. I've never met her. I don't know who wrote the song. It's called breaking more hearts than mine. You'll be, you know, if you break up with me. She talks about her mom and her dad. It's brilliant and I'm. It moves me. I'm like it's got to be really good to move because I just yeah needles, it's kind of a neutral, that's with me, with books, dude.
Speaker 2:You read so fast and so many that it's like it kind of ruins what you do. And I don't know how much you need to read that, because I I know the character that you write, because there's it's funny, because females love your books. But you've got this military tense to it often and it's real, it comes from this thing and you've got your character. I would say it would be. I'm guessing here We'd be more important for you to live more life, to have things to write about, than to read other people's fiction.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I know, and I know people like that Absolutely, and that's why, you know, when I started I've I love movies too, and I thought I was gonna write screenplays. That's what I thought I was gonna do. That's what I thought my career is gonna look like. Then come to find out. Then you got to play the Hollywood game. I don't want to play the Hollywood game.
Speaker 1:I don't so when I see people that are Following their passion and that I think that's what struck me about this. This, this guy in particular, was it's what you talk about. He is living it 24 hours a day. He doesn't want to do anything else and he's helping other people Find the same thing, and to me, that is that's the kind of person that we need in in our industries. Right, like people that love it, no matter what. You know, a guy that's just fanatical about Elon Musk, right Like? Like that dude. I have no idea how he's done what he's done, but he is somehow fanatical about every one of the billion dollar companies that he's he started. How crazy. He's a freak. We may never see a person like that again in our lifetimes. I'm just glad I'm alive right now.
Speaker 2:Me too, I agree, so yeah, so when I see.
Speaker 1:So when I see people that are that invested in their careers, and it's the same time like I don't know. Obviously I don't know Elon personally, but when you run into somebody who not only is passionate about what they do, they also seem to have some things figured out on on their personal side of their lives, I Go, dude, what, what is this person doing? And so I've been doing a deep dive on this dude right, like how did he start and what? You know, where did he come from and all this stuff. I'm like you, I'm constantly learning and that's why I like running into younger people, specifically because they have new ideas and sometimes they're they're dumb and I'm like, hey, look, that sounds great.
Speaker 1:But this maybe why that doesn't work, and I'm sure you've got to do that plenty. You know you have to be kind of nice about it, especially if it's an up-and-coming name. That, yeah, something they throw into your writing room and you're like, oh god, like you've to, it does crack me up Sometimes will be, will be hanging out on a Monday night and you're like, yes, so this morning a row, this guy. I'm like like I don't have to deal with that. So how, how do you deal with that with and I know you do that less now you know it's more of who you're choosing to write with but, like, how do you get through those days where it's like either Either nothing's flowing for you like you and Brett, or the person you're trying to vibe with you just can't vibe with?
Speaker 2:That's rare because the truth is, yeah, we write with who we want to write with. That and it's Made. 90% of our rights are great and they're the people we want to be with. And and whether that does or doesn't cost me money, like I'm not, I'm not riding around on the back of someone's tour bus while they spoke weed all weekend and just I was too old for that shit. I'm not doing it. So when we write, we write in town and I get what. We'll try.
Speaker 2:We would travel for a friend and write, but you know we don't have many terrible days, but there's just some days where I feel like I'm a bad writer. Yeah, and I, you know, you just put your head down and just do it and get through it. And I Wanted to mention on the Elon Musk thing, like it's, like you're really good at the Be curious, not envious, like I love to to look at someone. Okay, so I have two really really successful friends, really opposite ends of business, but Strauss Zelnick is a Fortune 500 guy made all of his his. He's a CEO of Zelnick Media and Take 2, which is a video company unbelievably smart, hardworking guy, whatever, and we're very close. I'm known him for Shit, 28 years or something. And then the other one is Tim McGraw, very close to Tim and we've been great friends, music guy, whatever the similarities, and I'm. When I say I have a lot of successful friends, you being one of them, I mean the.
Speaker 1:The next level that guys, that would be at dinner with Elon Musk and Mark Cuban.
Speaker 2:Right, the similarities between Strauss and Tim are countless. They're countless. I Picked dumb things that don't make any money to copy from those guys. They're both crazy fitness people. Crazy will make time. Strauss, I was literally. I'm like what's the biggest meeting you've ever canceled for a workout? And he's like I think it was Warren Buffett. Like he, he will move a meeting back or cancel one if it doesn't allow. There's not a lot in time for him to get his work out. It really and I mean not it's he writes the workouts I do. He's they're way into it, but they're they're focused on what they're doing. Somebody that multitasking is not really a thing. Have you heard that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, You're not really multitasking You're just doing one thing at a time. So their ability to time manage that you would call multitasking, but it's not. They've just gone, we're gonna relax for this 10 minute period and then we're doing this, and then we're doing this, and then we're gonna like there's Allotments to have downtime and relax. But those guys do not just take a day and I I need a day to do, to do nothing. So one of my things of being able to observe two people that are that successful, that I'm very close with I know other people's really successful, I'm close with both of these guys and I've gotten to spend time at their homes, on vacation with them and see how they operate. And the truth is, I need a little more downtime. Yeah, not, not not physical downtime, but I need a little more. I need a little more time. That just says there's no end to this particular hang. Mm-hmm, what, whatever it might be, I need an afternoon to let it be and it's that.
Speaker 2:But that is the difference there. They can compartmentalize emotions, they can. The time management is really the thing. Oh, totally, total fervor. But there's a lot of things about those two guys that are the same and completely different businesses. That then I'm like okay, number one, I want a curious, not envious, so I can look at them and I can tell you the reasons that I'm not gonna be one of them. And I'm okay with most of those reasons. They're not necessarily character defects on my part, they are life choices. Right, I need a little bit, especially now, after what I've been through losing my son and things that are going on I need Downtime, I need real downtime and I don't think they really get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's amazing to see the similarities between well, they're probably very, very deliberate with the things that are most important to them, right? And for you and me, those things are just different. We are very deliberate. Like me, I'm very deliberate about my family time. I know that I want to take my kids to school and pick them up in the afternoon. So what does that mean? That means that I don't do anything in the morning or the afternoon. I don't schedule meetings, I do everything in the middle of the day. So that takes me off of certain people's radar and I've got to be okay with that, right. But but you and I have both experienced what it's like to just be all about ourselves too.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:I'm done with that. Like I need to be, I need to be of service to my family, I need to be of service to my friends, and that being said, those two guys both are big family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know they just it's scheduled. Yep, it's, it's not last minute, it's, it's scheduled a time different because they're on different ends and and the time that they do spend with focus is so much focus is so much focus and the time with family is so planned, my family wouldn't go for it. Yeah, you're not giving me like exactly, like 26 hours to hang right. If I'm coming, I'm coming up for the weekend and we're gonna, you know, and so it's ironically, my, my youngest son spent the summer with Strauss, or June at least, and you know he gets home from an international flight or something at 11 o'clock. He stayed with Strauss in New York in his apartment and we get home at 11 o'clock was for me, it would take me an hour and a half to get to sleep anyway, and then at 5 30 they get up to do a workout with 20 guys.
Speaker 2:I've never seen anyone Serve more people than Strauss. Yeah, first of all, he's in, he's in recovery, he's way until. He's amazing guy and he serves and helps and mentors. I mean hordes of people, amazing. I thought I was the only one like, why is he? You know, well, I'm not the older guy that he's been mentoring for 25 years. Tons, never seen anyone give more. It's just your time management has to be so strict. I just wouldn't be able to function with those confines. His children are grown, but it's. There's a lot of service going on and a lot of family time. For someone that busy it's crazy to be. You know, just at some point my head needs to go Right and just lean back and not. There's never a time where that happens. Okay, I'm gonna get to bed. It's time, I'm tired and he probably lays down and goes to sleep within 30 seconds.
Speaker 1:So there's a dude. You know who Rob Dierdick is. He has a show ridiculousness or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that guy right so grew up as a skater, like in that world. This guy will very soon be a billionaire and he was on one of my favorite podcasts, my first million talking about, and I think this all came off like completely off the cuff. They just started asking questions because they were fans of his and he starts Detailing exactly what you're talking about. Every five minute block of his day is mapped out and what's funny is, you would think and there's a reason that this became one of their biggest hits one of their best episodes was he doesn't come across as somebody who's super stressed out Within his the confines of what he's built and and optimized. He is super happy. He's like I have all the time off I need. I have all the time with my family. I'm killing it in business now. You know we're starting this, we're doing this, whether but he knows exactly what's gonna happen in the next 35 minutes of his life and tomorrow too, you know.
Speaker 1:So there's something to that. I get it, but but like you, I you know we talked about this, about working out, and you know you getting lean and you know you're Now. You got me thinking about that, but it's like how much? Because we are, we are. We have addictive personalities, like how far is too far? You know what I mean. And I struggle with that sometimes, like like I will get really intense into something and then I'll realize, oh, I took it too far, I took something good and I turned it bad. So it's like, as you navigate this stuff in your life, now how do you, how do you balance that? Like, how do you know, is it a gut feeling now? Is it just your? You know, michelle says dude, you need to chill the fuck out, or you know what is it that I recognize balances.
Speaker 2:I'm swinging past it, the. I kind of remember this book, the name of the book, but I just read a book in the last six months. Yeah, that's why I can't remember that you were to remember the name of the book and you could read the first chapter.
Speaker 1:The main.
Speaker 2:You had that but I can't remember this book, but it basically was saying that it's okay. So I'll give you the synopsis with the working out, because I am the currently a very addicted to the fitness thing. It's my hobby but it's also kind of a compulsion. So, as you know, me and the listeners might might not, but as you do, it's not that the workout is bad or the fasting or the protein or the whatever. Those things in themselves are good things, but my compulsion to have to do them can still be a negative thing, even with positive things. So what I have to do is make sure that my Well. For one thing, the compulsion to do good things is better than the compulsion to bed, certainly better than cocaine and whiskey, absolutely. So I do have addictions. They happen to be healthier things.
Speaker 2:I Could try to not make them a compulsion. For one thing, I have made myself take a day, a week off because the truth is it does more for my head than it does for my body. Yeah, my brain needs I love the height to get an outside, being outside and exercising together. They say the best possible thing to do to reduce the risk of Alzheimer's, which is a brain thing, it's to exercise. Yeah, like it's, so it's very good. But I make myself take a day off. I also try to not panic when there's a day when I can't work out. Yeah, sometimes I have to, like early flight land, go to a riding session and we have a gig that I'm just not time to work out and I'll be in a bad mood because I can't do that and At the same time I still don't think I have the balance necessarily down.
Speaker 2:There is a we have a tendency to overdo, and Recognizing that and talking about it I think dissipates it quite a bit and then just picking healthy things to overdo because I am going to overdo something. So I'm and I'm not using it as an excuse. But Another thing is, if you're not kind of a freak about this stuff, you don't get the results. Yeah, and our program of 12 step recovery, you get the benefits based kind of on the amount of what you put into what you put into it. Yeah, and it's the same thing with like so I have friends that fast Occasionally. I mean, you know you're gonna get occasional result. I'm a little bit of a freak about it, but I get I got result cosmetically that I wanted right away. I'm like oh, I'm in my adult life I've never been able to get rid of love handle, so I'm doing this.
Speaker 2:The thing is I'm bad at starting something the book, that, whatever it is but I will make something a way of life, like really the work I mean I put it, put a little workout room in my garage. I don't have to leave the house me too. I make it really, really, really Accessible and easy, and literally six days a week my whole life. I'm getting ready to go to Italy with my wife and I'm gonna work out every day and I'm going to. It's just Not because I feel like I have to. Maybe the compulsions there a little bit, but the rest of my day will be better. Fight, yeah, so I Should have a better handle on that, and I do Recognize the idea that I'm addictive and things, but I try to just try to make them positive things but I also think that you know there there can be a fine line, but you've chosen something and I've.
Speaker 1:I realized this, I don't know. Probably it was a little bit after I got sober, I I wanted to just feel better, like I was probably 10 pounds overweight, just not feeling right. And you know, I I hired one of my buddies to be my my trainer, like remote trainer, and what I realized in that moment, when I change those things, is I've got to do stuff that I can do for the rest of my life. I can't do these flash in the pan diets. I can't do like one crazy workout a week. I have to do something that's sustainable for the rest of my life, and I learned that in the program. Yeah, I 100% did.
Speaker 1:What are the things that I need to do every single day to be saying for me Get down on my knees and pray right, it's really fast. I mean literally I am saying God, thank you for being with me today, for showing me your will, and give me the strength to carry that out, that's it. And then I say thank you for my wife and my kids and I say each one of them, that's it. Then I get up and I get my coffee and I start going about my day. And then, when I go downstairs and I'm sitting there with my daughter who's getting ready for school, I Pull out Jesus, calling that I learned from you.
Speaker 1:I love right and in every day. I mean it's not unlike going to a meeting. It's something that I need. I need to read that, like this morning. I'm like Recently there been you know. I know you guys read it too the whole. The first time I read thank me for your problems. Yeah, I'm like I don't wanna, like I don't want problems, and then you real. Then you start doing it and you're like, oh okay, I'm better, but again that's like a habit that I need to have for the rest of my life. So, whether it's it's eating right, you know, like you're the one that got me to start having you know the right kind of shake and and Because you made it into something, I feel like that's accessible.
Speaker 1:But, it's like. It's like you know, if I was not. One of my favorite quotes is you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Hmm, I absolutely believe in that.
Speaker 1:So when I get to hang out with people like you that I really admire and and I trust with everything, and I see you do something different, or I remember that and I'm like you know what I want to do that because it's obvious that he's getting something out of it, right, whether it's. You know, you had the hard boiled egg machine and I forgot I had one at home that I'd use in three years. Or you reading Jesus Calling when we went stage or place at Tampa last year, I'm like I ordered it while we were there at your house and it was waiting for me and you know what that book has been there on the days that I really, really needed it. Yeah, you know, it's those little things, but if I'm not, if I'm not out like my compulsion is to stay home and be by myself I have to force myself to come out and and talk to people, because that is not my natural inclination to do that.
Speaker 2:I'll say this too, back at you with the things, because they're beyond the opening my purview to write a book, but also Just the one. You talk about technology and the. You said this is the greatest generation we're ever gonna have only man. Because I really do kind of go, this is the laziest piece of shit Generation ever and we just made them lazier with a pandemic. This is really gonna be bad news for everyone and and your positive, no that's.
Speaker 2:I agree with that thing about the people that you hang around and the truth is I Like being by myself until I get with other people and I'm like, oh, you know, it's like go to that meeting. You know you go to the meeting and you always leave. Go man, I'm sure glad I went to that meeting, but on the way there, you're tired of. The day has happened and the truth is I could Sometimes I think like I could just stand this little property here with me and my wife and let her garden why, wrote stupid shit on a computer and you know, read a book and worked out. I didn't have to leave, unless the weather was bad, in which case I go to Florida, and it's just not. That is just not how it works.
Speaker 2:Pain is part of the equation and If I, I feel like you can either chase pain or you can let it chase you and that goes for emotionally, there's, there's, so you know about my, my, the death of my son, and that I have a group of men that get the gather together, that of all lost children that we talk and there are, on occasion, there's someone who's adverse to our talk about being blessed and talk about positivity and talk about joy, and joy and sadness, I believe, are connected. I found true joy in my sadness more than I ever had. It's not happiness. Happiness is based on circumstances.
Speaker 2:Joy comes from deep, deep within and those things, and there will be a person that doesn't want to like fuck this. This is not what I want to hear. I want to hear God. I don't feel blessed at all. I don't want to hear about God and it's not.
Speaker 2:It's a very obviously not a religious group, but very. We all believe our children are in heaven. We believe we're gonna see them one day, without a doubt, and that person that's tied up in the negativity is simple and it's complicated as than just letting go of it. Yeah, and that is something that you do. You're looking for the positive. Where did I go wrong? How can I do better? But also, hey, man, this is pretty good and the truth is gratitude, gratitude, gratitude. Totally. It gets rid of my fear. I enjoy learning things. Now I enjoy getting better at something.
Speaker 2:First of all, you're talking about the workout. I've always said the best workout is the one that you'll do Period, whatever it is. I just just people moving around. It's like do the things that we can control, get some exercise, move around, meet some people that are interesting. Say yes when you want to say no and say no, maybe, when you want to say yes to some things and learning some discipline.
Speaker 2:The truth, I was raised by a hardcore disciplinarian. Until I got sober, I was no discipline to say no to anything and I just literally thought life was a big high orgasm for me to have. And you were just entering my purview. Just the most demented shit you wind up with in the music business, especially because you just assume that every rock star floats around flicking their ashes of their cigarette on everybody. Okay, it's crazy. Learning some discipline, being curious about people that are successful. These are not like novel ideas, but for some reason maybe it's an age thing, but for some reason in the last decade or so it's become so much more interesting to me to be better, to be better with my money, to be better with my career, to be a better father, better friend, and the striving to be better is kind of a full-time job. Whatever it is, sometimes I got to just relax and go. Today I'm gonna be any better. Just mail it in, just get through.
Speaker 1:It's Sunday.
Speaker 2:Sleep in Don't get better Totally, but I think you find the same thing. People on the get I want to get better journey are the people I got locked arms with.
Speaker 1:Oh, dude, 100%. You know and we've talked about this in our Monday group, that the people that make it it's actually pretty small, Like especially in the recovery world, and we don't really talk about that a lot, especially when newcomers around probably not appropriate but the people that are really filled with joy, it's not a high percentage, but I'll tell you what those people are. Pretty special, yeah, the ones I mean. Rick was the one who taught me about joy and the fact he's the one that taught me that nobody can steal my joy. I didn't know that. I thought that if somebody piss you off, it's naturally your joy's going away. And to me back then I thought happiness and joy were the same thing. Come to find out they're two very different things and I still struggle with it.
Speaker 1:So something funny happened to me last night. I'm on my way to a meeting. I'm tired, I'm just kind of, you know, not really into it. We hear all the time there are two times to go to a meeting when you don't want to go and when you want to go, right. And so I went.
Speaker 1:And you know it's my home group and everybody's sharing and we get to the very end. I'm like I don't think I'm gonna share today and it is a small group, so I usually always share and we have like literally a minute left before we start wrapping up and everybody looks at me and I'm like I'm just, you know, because I'm not in a great mood, and I'm like, fine, whatever. So I share and of course, you know it all comes out like in two other guys had said you know, we didn't really, I didn't really want to come today, it was rough day, you know, this had happened, whatever. And so I'm like screw it. Just like these guys said, you know, I didn't really feel like being here. And then, as I was talking and as people were listening, I came out of my funk and I'm like you know what, screw this.
Speaker 1:Right now my attitude changes because I can change whenever the hell I want. And then, when I don't even know if you were at that when we were at Wes's house, and he's like when you leave here, you should just have a zippity doodle whistling out your ass attitude. And so I said that in the meeting and I'm like I'm in. Then, you know, everybody laughed and then I had to give the chips out and I'm just like, yes, like my change the attitude and and and I'm like halfway through it, and and then music starts playing, like like really happy rea game music, and I'm like who? Who left their phone on? And I'm like pointing at the woman sitting next to me and she goes. She points at my pocket Somehow. Some random, really happy rea gay song came on my that literally whistling zippity do have your ass.
Speaker 1:No, that has never in my life happened before, ever. I told you a few minutes ago I never have my phone up, it's always on silent. How did that song play in my pocket in the middle of a group and everybody's looking at me in shock and then they just we all lose it. We just start laughing and I look up and I'm like there's only one person that could have done that and that's the dude upstairs. You know, and I'm just. It's that reminder again that in order to get out of my own shit, I got to do stuff that makes me uncomfortable, and you and I talk about that a bunch that I have to get out of where I feel comfortable. I have to help other people, and I got to. Really, I think the most important thing is I got to show up because that is not my natural inclination to do those things.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and when, when you step out of that comfort zone, it's like that is literally when the thing happens and it doesn't tend to happen, or to the extent to which you're willing to step out of your comfort zone. I have a great little story. It's small but it was big to me and I learned a great lesson from it. So I'm in Florida, we have a little house, it's out on the beach, and a friend of mine found this guitar that had been I had loaned to someone and they had loaned it away and it got lost in a shuffle something like 25 years ago and it was the guitar that I had gone into the fire my family's home fire to pull out. It was it's a crappy, bc rich guitar, but I had run into a fire to take this guitar out when I was a teenager and then it had gotten lost, whatever. Somehow they found it. My friend found it. He works at Dean Guitars in Tampa and they were going to do a little Fox 13 news special on it in the whatever the Fox station is in Tampa. So we're down there. It's my time to chill. I don't have enough days on this particular trip already. I'm a little unsettled. I have to get up at like five in the morning to drive to be on this morning show. An hour to Tampa to be on this morning show. They're just going to do a little thing and we might get my guitar back after all.
Speaker 2:This time I'm in a fight with my wife, an argument of over something that was so insignificant that I can't even remember it now. I think mostly it was that I was tired and I had been working a lot and just flown in and that I didn't think she was appreciating my tiredness and hard work, whatever that was In your presence. And I'm just pissy and I'm driving across the Howard Franklin Bridge which separates Tampa from St Petersburg, and it is, the sun's coming up, it's beautiful, and I'm just pissed and I have to go to the bathroom and I need to get coffee and I was assuming that I would stop on this hour drive somewhere early and I just didn't do it and I didn't do it and I didn't do it and I got to, like beautiful sunset, and I'm driving through and I get into the downtown Tampa and I'm like three blocks from the place Dean Guitars, which is in Tampa, and I'm like, oh my God, I never stopped to go to the bathroom and I need coffee and they might not have it there. So I pull into this it's kind of a bad area of town, kind of where I grew up and I pull into this gas station and I pull up and there is this really really rough looking character with his arms inside his sleeves, smoking a cigarette and a kid young kid and it's a rough place, a rough gas station, a lot of that going on. This kid just sitting there and he's smoking a cigarette. And I pulled in and it was literally. He looked so daunting and I'm not, you know, I'm no pus, but I was like, maybe park around the other side, whatever. So I parked and I went inside and I walked the other way around because I didn't want to walk by this guy for fear that he was going to stab me or whatever. And I go inside and I get my coffee and I go to the bathroom and I'm coming out and I see this rough guy. He's just sitting there and he's got his arms inside his sleeves and I just looked at him and I said you want a jacket? And the tough on his face went to like sad, whatever. And he said, yeah, that would be great. And I went to the back of my car and I got a hoodie that had been in the back of my Yukon for years, probably, whatever and I gave him the hoodie and say, hey, have a great day. And immediately, immediately, my okay.
Speaker 2:So several things happened to me, though my mood change complete. I was no longer mad at my wife. I called her in the three blocks between the gas station and the place I was going to apologize and tell her I'd been an idiot and I loved her and it was insignificant. Why giving somebody a jacket? Number two, the thing that I was afraid of, which I think maybe a microcosm for a lot of things that we do, the thing that I was afraid of is only needed to be feared because I was fearing it. It really was something. Maybe I should embrace, like you say about AI or technology or this new generation of people. Maybe if I could learn to embrace the good in everyone and give what I can, I'll have a different attitude about that. So the fear of this guy in this area was gone, my anger at life was gone, because I just felt good about doing something different, and I'm like man, if that doesn't teach me the biggest lesson, kind of across the board.
Speaker 2:Everything I'm afraid of is probably something. Now, by the way, if we make stupid decisions, if we buy beanie babies with our savings, we're going to be broke. If we spoke cigarettes four packs a day, we're probably going to get lung cancer. And if we cheat on our wives, they're probably going to leave us. There are some constants that are there, but the other stuff we're afraid of, the nuances. I think we can, just we can, we can, we can embrace them. You've taught me that a lot. You embrace those things that you don't, that you've the fear that you have of something because you're not, you're not comfortable with it, because you don't know it as well. And making that step out, I mean if you hadn't stepped out to write that book that first time, if your wife said no, no, no, god don't do that. No, she had enough confidence to say, yeah, take your six months and write the book.
Speaker 1:Do you want to sit in here if you don't do that? No, it's crazy, right. It's funny the when you look back it seems like such a big decision that we do certain things or we've done certain things, but really in the moment it was a very small decision because, like for me, I could have just laid down and taken an app For you. I mean, you could have said, no, I'm not going to Nashville, we're going to stay in Tampa, we've got gigs down here and we're making some money. We're just going to make that work, right? You know the other, the other thing too.
Speaker 1:Before we get done and I want to be cognizant of your time, let's talk about your. You know the podcast and how that came about. Obviously, you lost your son. That sent you down a different path that you weren't expecting. Obviously, that's one of the reasons, you know.
Speaker 1:You talk about the time when, when we met in the rooms, when I first met you, you know you're the guy with long hair kind of looks like Jesus. I knew you were in the music business, but I know not to ask most of the time, right, and then we end up having the same sponsor. So we get a little bit closer. But I mean really cause of COVID? Right, cause we had a meeting, outside meetings, and we got to know each other.
Speaker 1:And then what happened with Sage and um, I saw you take a different path and it wasn't the path that I expected. Instead of, instead of floundering like I've seen other people do, you, I've told other people and I think I've told you the spiritual journey that you've been on is like it's like it's like watching a fucking miracle in real time, and I don't know how to explain it other than to point out little things that I've seen you do whether that's have a little more faith In doing something different. Right, going back out on the road and doing more shows when you thought you didn't want to fucking do that anymore, being closer to your wife now instead of I've seen other people lose a child and they they're divorced with any year, right, yeah, like, why do you think for you? You know the question was gonna be about about a podcast, but I think that the better question for me is why do you think you went down that route, that road, instead of the other way?
Speaker 2:It's a good question, man. That's a great question and I think the podcast probably wraps all into that. But being in recovery Definitely set me up for this. My son be having difficulties with substance abuse set me up for this. My wife and I got close. We participated in the solution.
Speaker 2:The truth is, because I'm an alcoholic or a recovering alcoholic, I knew I wasn't gonna be that guy at the end of the bar getting padded on the head oh man, for you got a rough time and I'm over there. I have the excuse. Part of the alcoholic side of me says Okay, now you have an excuse to just go be that drunk and no one's gonna blame you. And I always had a quiet agreement with God that if he ever took one of my children, I was gonna drink the rest of my life and fuck him. He shouldn't have done this. And and somehow that never entered my mind because when this happened I immediately felt God. I don't know how to describe it, but I immediately felt God. I felt like sage was with my father who passed away 20 plus years ago. I, I just felt God and I just the love people showed me, our money night group, just walking through this with you guys and my people in the music business, and it was just amazing. I felt so much God, I couldn't forsake him in that time because so I'm not sure If this would have happened without this happening or not. But this, I'm gonna tell you this little story that I think changed everything. If there's one little moment Before the funeral, before sages funeral, he, I Wrote up something that I wanted to say and I talked to the priest, who's a great friend, who's also in recovery, he's one of my favorite people in the world, and and and I said, hey, I think I want to talk at the funeral.
Speaker 2:And he said why don't you type it out and Give me a copy? And you have a copy in your pocket? And he said because a lot of people think they want to talk and it gets there and it just doesn't happen. It's not, it's not good, it's just too much. And I Said, okay, good deal, no, we have a Catholic funeral. It's way too long. Some dudes singing songs. I wanted to go shut up, just get done. I don't want to hear any more songs. I had a few of my niece is saying was great. My friend Ernest saying and it got to be kind of long.
Speaker 2:But we walked in the door the first thing, walked down the aisle and this is huge picture of sage and he's looking me right in the eye and I mean he literally he's looking at you know the picture that no matter where you go, they're looking at his face. He's looking at me right in the eye for that picture. And I look, I could literally hear him saying if you got something to say, motherfucker, you get up there and say it. And I felt like so we, we sat down.
Speaker 2:I had been, I had been sitting for literally 30 seconds into an hour long funeral. I was the last thing to be to talk and I looked at the priest that said I'm talking and he's like sure, I said I'm talking, I'm. He told me at that moment and I went up and did that speech through tears Gushing or whatever that it was, and got through that speech. And when it was done that was so uncomfortable for me to do and when it was done, I was like I felt euphorically high, like something had happened to me, and I just stopped caring what anyone thought and I started going. Whatever's left of this earth journey we have, I am not going to sit around the corner, being afraid of what might happen, because if I'm not afraid to die, anything between where I am right now and death should be a piece of cake. So I'm going to do this stuff. All of this stuff I'm gonna.
Speaker 2:I didn't really want to start the podcast my we. We did a, we did a benefit Concert in Austin. It's a charity that called Mack, jack and McConaughey and it's Jack Ingram, who's an old friend of ours, mack Brown, who's a former Texas coach in Matthew McConaughey, who everyone knows, and Sitting in case a cool event. But you know, sitting in the catering room, eaten by myself, and this guy comes up to me and say I'm a podcast producer. I do Jack Ingers podcast. I've seen you on a couple things. I think you need to do podcasts on grief. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:I'm not doing that, you know we have anyway we switch.
Speaker 2:We talked for a while, it's interesting, his concept, and I thought it was cool. But we talked a few times and I kept telling my wife why I wasn't doing that. And then one morning, you know, I was saying yeah, I talked to Matt again, it's just really cool ideas. Yeah, but I'm not doing this. And she goes oh, you're doing that. And I don't know if it was a directive or a prediction, but it happened.
Speaker 2:And those little things, that speaking at his funeral instead of letting the priest read it I'm not, by the way, I have no problem with anyone who doesn't speak at a funeral, because I get it. I was there, but for some reason, that moment was a moment for me that just said Go take this thing by the balls, go find God, go find your God, not the Baptist God you grew up, but go find God, find Jesus, find truth, find meaning, find joy, embrace sadness, embrace pain, find other people. If this works in a a where we find other people that have the same ailment as us. I'll tell you this I don't know many things that I would say scream from the rooftops. I know this to be true, but I know this to be true. If you have an ailment, find other people with that ailment and fucking meet with them, congregate with them, make them part of your life. Maybe it's cussers anonymous that I need to go to whatever it might be me both.
Speaker 2:Find those people, because that is, that's a, that's a definite yeah, there's no doubt about that. And I really do believe that losing my son was going to send me. He's spinning in one direction or the other and it's not man. My life is not perfect and it will never be the differences. I'm okay with that and and it's it's more meaningful, even on a bad day, I have faith, I have trust, I much more trust, and I Feel like I'm in his will for the most part. You know, not every second of every day, but like what is the next right thing to do? And I think, if we put ourselves in that position to say, alright, god, I got nothing left of me, how do you want this to be used? And it's like do a podcast, write a book, sponsor people in AA, meet with your, meet with your core group every Monday night to give you the you know this the strength to get to the week. Find people. I have people in Florida now that there are like people that have lost Kids and and people in recovery.
Speaker 2:Um, it's a. The alternative sucks. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I don't want to be that that drunk. I had to bar getting patted on the head. I'm not. I'm so glad that I didn't take that Opportunity to my wife even said she said I don't, by the way, just so you know I don't, I don't blame you if you drink, I won't divorce you and I'm like you think that really sweet of you to say you know what you're saying not because of the first drink, because it lasts right, you know
Speaker 2:and and and that's just. That's a gift of God is enlightening. I'm tougher Every in every way, and I don't mean time, I don't mean, I Don't even say stronger, I say tougher I'm. God gives me strength, so I'm weak, I'm okay with being weak and all that emotionally. But I'm also tougher because I'm willing to take more blows Physically, emotionally, spiritually, whatever and not turn around and run yeah, just take the blows. And you take the blows. You're still standing and all of a sudden feels pretty good. You ever get to fight when you're a kid and it felt terrible in it and you got done, you're like oh yeah, rawr, that's rawr.
Speaker 2:I think there's a way for us. I mean, I hope everyone here and this doesn't get to lose a kid to find this stuff. But I'm telling you we can live our lives with more meaning by getting rid of fear, embracing discomfort. I just wanted to do a podcast where I was the cool guy, I want to be the music Joe Rogan and sit and talk, and if I wrote a book, I want to be funny and how I looked great at the end and everything worked out perfectly and that just didn't happen. That wasn't my path, but I I do feel like, if anything has been conscious, I've said okay, this is my plate, I'm gonna embrace this path. What would you have me do? And there's no way to make it perfect anymore. I can't.
Speaker 2:I had a vision of what I was gonna do with my children. We're gonna have sons, my sons are gonna have sons and I we're gonna have this many great, I don't have any plans anymore. I have no control over what they do when they're adults. I need to show love to everyone I'm around. I need to be a good father or good husband, a good partner, a good friend. I need to not be afraid to do something out of my comfort zone and I'd be not be afraid to say no to something I know is not good for me. It's almost that simple and I'm actually grateful for the journey. Yeah, we're all gonna die and I'm okay, or would die, and that ever was before.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know you've said that a few times it's just, it's Not just the journey, but the strength that you've, you're now walking in, is what, what I see and what other people see. And it's why you know, it's why the producer came up to you. I remember when you came back and you mentioned that you came back from being out of town. You're like dude, that's. Can you believe this guy? And I'm like in my head, I'm going You've been telling me something was on deck.
Speaker 1:Oh dude, I knew it from the very beginning, you know, because, again, it's like I saw something happen to you and I couldn't explain it. It was just this feeling, what I will tell you and I don't know if I've ever mentioned this to you before, I don't even know if I've said this in public I Remember I don't remember where we were when, when it was the first time you told me about that you had made a promise that if you lost your son or one of your kids, that you would drink Almost the day that I quit drinking. I made that promise too. I said this is it, this is my, this is my hard line, god, yeah, so fuck you if you ever do this to me. Yeah, you saying that to me, took that off the table.
Speaker 1:Oh good, yeah, good, because, because, again, I'm a knucklehead, right, I'm a very basic man. If I think that I'm special, then I think that I can do things that are outside the norm. When I hear people that I admire say things that make sense and they live them, which you are living them, then I'm like, oh, that's the right way to do it. But if I don't see it and hear it and then experience it, it doesn't sink in because I've got a thick fucking skull. So I'm just blessed you mentioned, if you have something, go find other people that have that thing right, like you starting the dad's group. Do you have no idea? When you told us that, like the rest of us just smiled like this is what Brad's meant to do. You know what I mean Like help other people, and I think that's the biggest thing that I've seen from you. Is that not that you didn't help people before? That's not what I'm saying at all. But this is Was it first on my agenda?
Speaker 2:No, it was not.
Speaker 1:But this has somehow opened you up into being something else for others. Right To offering that hoodie to the guy standing outside the gas station, to saying yes to a podcast, to saying yes to sitting down with me for two hours All these things that I remember. Wes used to tell me when I was having a really bad day, he would say let's think back before, when you first came into the program. Compare that day with today. Are you better? Absolutely Okay. So what are we talking about now? And that just. I need that perspective. So, when somebody else is going through something, and whether it's similar or different or whatever and it can be an example to me because I'm always watching, right, because I don't want what you have, but I want what you're doing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:No, no, I want what you have and that's not materially. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Like I remember coming into the program in the beginning and not really understanding I didn't know the rules, I didn't know all this other stuff but very quickly I came to understand. I would see somebody in the rooms and they just look like at peace and they're filled with joy. And then after the meeting, all these people like that's how I met Wes all of a sudden all these people were congregating around him and I'm going what does he have Like, what is he doing? And that's how I first met him was. I was just curious. I'm like I don't know why all these people want to talk to him, because you know he can be a pretty quiet guy and all that sort of thing, very introspective, but then he's been one of the pivotal people in my life, you know. But now I have the courage to go up and talk to people like that, because before I wouldn't say I wouldn't come up to a Brad Warren and go hey, man, what's your deal?
Speaker 1:You know like I will literally say that to people now and they're like what do you mean? I'm like I don't know there's something about you, man, I just don't get it. Like, what's your? Why do you have this vibe Like, why do you just seem like content? And I ask people that kind of stuff now and it shocks them at first and then they're like. Then they get it. They're like, oh okay, so this is what it's all about and something about that freedom to not give a shit.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, god, we will learn so much more if we can do that. I have actually recently gone to people after an AME and said thank you, I love your take. You're like really, oh, wow, thank you, what was it? And I tell them a couple of things and they're like oh really, someone said the other day. This girl said you know, alcoholics are the only people that will treat loneliness with isolation. Man, that's so.
Speaker 2:I've been trying to think of that for not for me and for friends for years. Like, yeah, that's it. Oh, I'm feeling lonely so I'm gonna stay home tonight, you know, so we do it. No, yeah, hello.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of common sense involved in it, but we're emotional beings and we care too much how we feel. The truth is today, it's none of my business how I feel. My feelings are bullshit and my feelings will get me in trouble. And when I'm hungry, I don't have to eat, and when I'm tired, I don't have to not work out. And when I'm sad, I don't have to crawl into a hole. I can get on the phone and I can call somebody. And if I listen to my feelings, I'm gonna do everything wrong all day. But luckily, little bit of information, I know what the right thing to do is. So I put that sucker on auto drive and we're gonna do that, whether we feel like it or not. And an hour later, whether it's physical, emotional, spiritual or whatever, I'm feeling better for not listening to my feelings and my emotions and doing what I know to be right, and then we're gonna have a better rest of the day. It's like my friend Tim O'Neill says you're not having a bad life, you're having a bad day. In fact, you're probably having a bad hour and we can get carried away and I can make.
Speaker 2:I have some people in our program. They have a bad thing happen and they still go drink. They'll have years under their belt and the bad thing happens they go drink and they start over. I hope those people all make it and I love them dearly.
Speaker 2:But man, I don't wanna do it that way. I wanna be able to have a bad day, the worst day I could have imagined. I got to have the worst day I imagined and somehow all of those meetings added up or whatever it is. All the meeting with jackasses like you and all our buddies kept me from drinking that first day and that second day and that third day and now it's been three and a half years since then and I'm so glad I did a drink and man. So whatever I did was just enough, or whatever I didn't do didn't screw me up bad enough to not take that drink early on. Shoo, thank you, you know Right. Thank you to you, thank you to the program, all of it Cause that one little decision, cause you said it, it's a little tiny decision. All I had to do was go that day and get something to drink and who knows, oh, who knows the shit show that's in here.
Speaker 1:I mean, we've seen it. We've seen it with our friends right. One bad day, one bad minute, and they decide that picking something up or acting in a certain way Because you know, like today I don't think I'm gonna pick up a drink, but I sure as hell can act out or say something stupid to my wife and that will throw my world into a tailspin. So why am I doing that? It's cause something's wrong. The other thing too, while you were talking, it made me realize, like I remember when people were like well, you gotta be okay being at a five, you know, level one through 10, you gotta be okay. And I was like that's bullshit, that's total bullshit. You know, cause I'm a dreamer, I wanna be at a 10. Over time I came to realize being at a five is being okay.
Speaker 2:And you can put the dream at a five.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, you can be at a five, while the dream is or isn't happening, right, yeah, and the thing I realized the more days I was at a five, actually, the more days I was actually at a seven, you know, because I was just okay and so I started having these better days and it just, I don't know, it completely changed my life. And you know, we've been talking for two hours and I don't wanna keep you anymore.
Speaker 2:I'm sure we will do this again.
Speaker 1:Plus, you know we probably both have to go use the bathroom. But, dude, I just wanna thank you for doing this. Thank you for being one of the most important people in my life. Like I try not to be jealous when other people like my good friends hang out with other people, cause, like, really for me it's I wanna be part of that too, but it's been so cool to see you help so many people you know, and you've introduced me to one person in particular, who the three of us will get together again soon who has also become a very, very big part of my life.
Speaker 2:So it's like we're just connecting the dots as we go and, yeah, just I wanna say back at you I mean, honestly, carlos, you're one of my favorite people in the world. It's like I learned so much, and the truth is I don't know about helping anyone, but it's. The irony is, when we do things that the intent of is to help someone, we wind up helping. So I am actually probably more selfish than ever, but I figured out the way to really get it done.
Speaker 2:Really get it done is go try to help somebody else, and it wasn't working for us, so I'm super grateful for you. I'll do this anytime, all right man.
Speaker 1:Well, with that, we are out.
