The Chat
The Chat
#37 High Noon in New York City
Chatting about writing Westerns, the creative process, maintaining steady success, the trials of parenting during summer, taking inspiration from the Fast and Furious movies, the realities of international relations, solo travel and New York City's reputation through the decades.
And we're back Wee-ho. Woo-hoo.
Speaker 2:Friday. It is Friday, Dear kids. Do the whole wake up in the morning and go oh, thank god it's Friday.
Speaker 1:You know, I, no, not really. I think they mostly enjoy school. Yeah, same with mine, especially after this was. I mean, it was a long summer in its way, mm-hmm, less activities, I think, than usual. It felt busy to me because they were home more and we were dealing with more stuff, and I think to them especially my daughter, where she didn't do the summer care program at all this summer it was like, okay, no, I'm ready to go back to my friends now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think all of mine were to a certain degree. Mine are just by the time Friday comes around, because they all have their things during the week. They're tired, they're ready to sleep in the next day and CMSun has a long run tomorrow at 7 o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1:Oh god, is that practice? Yeah, it's practice. Every freaking. It's six days a week, most of the time, but still cross country. Yeah, that's cross country. Oh god, High school cross country. And it's like it's so hot this week that they canceled practice. It's hot Every day and I was telling, like I said to you before, like the only practices they did run Tuesday and Thursday at 5.30 in the morning. Oh no, and I'm like no, he's not going to be there, for that it was funny.
Speaker 2:You know, I get to the door today and you're like come in, come in, come in, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick Don't let the devil in it says on the thing.
Speaker 1:the thermometer or whatever like feels like 101 right now. Yeah, yeah, and it's still got. The mercury is still climbing. I think it's going to make another four or five degrees.
Speaker 2:My son gets in the car. When I pick him up in school yesterday, at any point to the thermometer in the car he goes is it really 100? I'm like, well, not really, we're on blacktop, so it says it's 95, but really the heat index? I mean the heat index has been like 107, right. Something like that. It's brutal.
Speaker 1:Fun times. They're really unpleasant Not my cup of tea. I'm thankful, though, like one of the realtors we talked to when we first moved down here, he nailed it. Tennessee has four seasons that show up almost right on time every year, and so, yeah, it's August, it's hotter than hell and humid as Louisiana, but it'll pass. Yep, I hope it's actually been a fairly decent summer so far.
Speaker 2:It's funny because it hasn't been bad until like two weeks ago, because when it really in this week, I mean, we've had cancellations. Last week was a nice little break in the middle of it. Yeah, we did, and it's supposed to cool off on Sunday like back down in the 80s again.
Speaker 1:We're old, we're talking about weather. I know right here and there's no yell at these clouds for blotting out my sunshine.
Speaker 2:No offense to anyone over my age listening right now. But you're old, yes, yeah, sorry, I don't talk that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, they don't talk like Grandpa Simpson, no, they talk like angry boomers. That they are Angry boomers Just kidding, oh, my gosh, sort of yeah. It's been a little crazy and I think we barely talked about it. So I adopted a shorter, slower pace for the last couple of weeks, starting this next book. Okay, so I'm at 40,000 words for it. So I've been doing 20,000 words a week, which is like 5,000 less than my normal pace. I'm loving it because I forget what happened. Like last week we had a half day or something going on where some sort of event I cannot recall what it is and I'm like oh, my brother and sister in law came to town on.
Speaker 1:Friday, and I'm like I'm not going to pressure myself to hit a full week's worth of work when I've got four, maybe four and a half days tops. And so I hit the 20,000 then and I like looked at my schedule for this week and it's like I had a lunch one day and I had, you know, doctor appointments for kids and like, okay, let's try 20,000 against you how this feels. I'm like I'm 40,000 words in, I'm cruising along. I have enough time in between my writing sessions every day. Like I watched fast five the other night because this is more of a heist book, and I've watched fast five, which I was just listening to us talk about it I think one of the podcasts, like maybe the one that released today and I love fast five so much I hadn't seen it in a few years. It's so great. It's a heist movie, though.
Speaker 2:Which one is that one? Is that the one with the Brazil? Yeah, that's the one you were talking about.
Speaker 1:This is Brazil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That was a fun one. It is, it's a lot of fun. But it gave me, like clarification on two of the things I really needed to know. Like I'm sitting there, I'm like, oh, I do need an immediate antagonist, not just an overarching antagonist, to pull this off properly. I'd been kind of, and then it clarified for me, like what is the Sienna of it all? Cause this is Girl in the Box 56.
Speaker 1:I'm like what is it that makes this heist story unique? Cause before it was like, oh, I'll just have to write it kind of like as a military thriller with some people with superpowers, and I'm like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like everything in fast five revolves around the cars, the gadgets, the coolness, the fast and furious of it all, whereas, you know, if you watch Ocean's Eleven, it's just more of a traditional heist where it's like it's about the character weaving cleverness of it all. And so it was very clarifying in that those breaks in between where I wasn't rushing my self allowed me time to kind of breathe.
Speaker 1:I'm juggling three different storylines in it, so each of them it was like I pick up one one day and just like roll through 6,000 words on it Monday, tuesday and Wednesday, and so yesterday I had a full schedule and I only got 2,000 words in, and this morning I did 1,600, to like put it over the top for the 20, and I just felt so great about it, cause it's like I'm done by eight o'clock this morning. I got my workout in already. I've done cardio every day this week, which is not necessarily a thing I've been doing a lot of, especially this summer, and so I don't know, I just I feel really good about it. I mean, another two to three weeks, I'll have this one wrapped up and I can start on the, the next in the new series, girl who Ran Away.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad yours is going well because, like I mentioned before, mine is not going as well. It's funny because it's been a harder story to tell for a couple of reasons. One is I shrunk the I'm usually kind of a little more panoramic on what the scene is. Now it's very focused, it's one place, it's a couple of characters. And the other thing too is I think I was in the beginning and this is full disclosure I think I was pouting a little bit. I'm like I'm not ready to start writing again. Like you know, I want summer to keep going. Like that's really how I felt.
Speaker 2:So I walked into it and I'm like, fuck it, whatever I want to write, I'm going to write it. And so I was writing like like 300 to 500 word chapters, which usually minor, about a thousand, because that's what I do is. You know, I do three chapters a day. That's typically at least 3000 words a day, if you know three to 5000 words, and you know. So I was looking at my word count. I'm like, damn, I think this is going to be more like a novella. When I'm done with it I'm like, oh geez. But it's funny because I'm going back and reading it and everything's actually really tight and it's really like the, the action and the just everything's very tight, intense, which I like. So it's like, hold on, okay, don't beat yourself up. Like cause, cause me, I'll look. Like. Look at the word count and I'm like I have one week left to write five more days.
Speaker 2:And all of a sudden I started putting this pressure on myself of, well, dude, you're going to have to start puffing up some more words or do whatever next week. I'm like, no, just keep rolling. And of course, today it was right, in line with what I usually write, word count wise, you know. So it's like, dude, chill out. I, I just, I don't know, it's cool to see you like like enjoying the process right now. Like that feeds me a little bit. Like, dude, carlos, just just chill, enjoy it. I got five more days Just knocking out, but this time, man, I've really had.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've literally been taking it one day at a time. I'm like, all right, I just got to get through today, just got to get through today and I did, and I got done today. I'm like it's Friday. Okay, I'm going to go talk to Robert.
Speaker 1:Let's go. I'm going to do a podcast, taking life one paragraph at a time. Oh God, One paragraph.
Speaker 2:One paragraph at a time, Apparently.
Speaker 1:Fast and the Furious is our touchstone for today. It's the theme oh my God, oh geez, but it is funny.
Speaker 2:I mean, how many, how many ups and downs have we been through just since we've done this podcast? Oh, gosh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the second half of the first book, a Girl who Ran Away. It was exactly like that for me. Oh, is that what you're calling it? Yeah, it's called the Girl who Ran Away. I have the cover for it now, almost. I mean, I think my cover artist is going to get back to me today about it, because I thought I replied to her yesterday and I accidentally sent it to Alicia instead. Check that out. The first book's called Buried in Lies. Carlos is looking at the cover right now. Nice, and that's a final title. Finally, I went through like 10 evolutions on the title before we came up with that.
Speaker 2:Are you going to do a common theme with the titles?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, no, I mean, I think the second one might be called Listening to Fear, but we'll see. But the thing about it is it's like you can never tell. Like sometimes I'll write a book and it's incredibly hard slog and I get done and I'm like, actually that is a really great book and it gets received to like huge lauded buttons.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:And another one I'll write. It'll be like the easiest book I ever wrote is called Pain Killer. It's Girl in the Box 18. I thought it was fantastic and nobody badded an eye at it, Like you couldn't pick it out of a lineup. People are like, oh yeah, it was good, it was fun, and some of it was that I had it done six months before I planned to release it. Some of it was that I wrote it in like 12 to 15 days or something like that. It just flowed. It was super easy to write and I mean I don't know, Some of it was just I introduced characters in there that have endured through the series that I really love, that were fun to create. But no one really ever mentions that as one of the high points.
Speaker 2:Oh that's so funny dude. Maybe there's something to that that like the stuff that we really have to like claw out of our soul to put on the page, like that just resonates more with people.
Speaker 1:Opening the vein. Yeah, it's a serious thing. By the way, did we talk about like? I've got this kind of regret in my soul at this point? I know I've mentioned it in my Mighty Network. I never I've had conversations with like multiple indie authors this week and so I never remember what I've said to you on the podcast versus what I've said to other people, like I don't know, these aren't like super private conversations.
Speaker 2:Okay, I forget everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, but like I mean I'm 56 books into the series and the biggest part of my readership has fallen off, I still make a very good living. It was reminded me by three the three indie authors I was at lunch with yesterday is like the girl in the box. Books that sell right now sell better than like 99% of indie author books right now. They were very sweet about it. Thank you, kelly, shannon and Lewis, for reminding me of this, because sometimes I get up my own ass thinking, oh, it's not what it used to be, because I used to sell you know whatever. And now it's like 10, still tens of thousands of copies moved after the release of a girl in the box book, and I'm like, oh, this is nothing compared to the ones that sold out you know hundreds of thousands of copies. And it reminded me, though, like some of my best work has been in the last like three, four years, like ones where, after, the largest part of my audience fell away Really. And like I mean so people read these books and they're like, oh, the original 10, they're so amazing, they're so great, they're so magical, whatever. And it's like if you didn't read till I mean the best ones.
Speaker 1:I think book 27 is one of the best things I've ever written. Book 29 is flat out amazing. 32, 30 or 31 and 32 or like highs. 38 is like amazing high 48. I mean I was just I can go through and I'm like people will say in these reviews and I it sounds like hyperbole, they're like Holy shit. After 50 books, robert has just hit a new high with whatever this and fallout 55 was one of the ones that's like one of my best reviewed books and it's like I feel kind of bad because like it's not like I set out to be, like I'm going to hold the good stuff back for book 55. It's, my technique improves and I just have to go in different directions and I don't know. I mean I just I feel bad because it's like if I could have put that in book five, I would have in order to really rivet you people and keep you reading.
Speaker 2:But you know we can't go back. I mean, here's the thing is we hopefully keep sharpening the sword, making it better as we go. I mean we've talked about on and off pod, that it's. You know, it's not what it was five years ago. No, it's just not.
Speaker 1:And that's very similar to one of the other conversations I had with the other indie author this week who's still plugging away. But I got to thinking about it and, like, a lot of the people I started out with are gone. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Just a lot of them, you know, or moved into another section of the business and had some success there, like as a consultant or whatever.
Speaker 2:And I don't blame them, no, no go where the money is. Go and make sure you're hurt happy. Well yeah, especially when you're slogging away and you're seeing nothing for your effort. It's just that's hard.
Speaker 1:Well, really hard. I mean there was a not meme, but it was sort of like set up in a meme format where there's this author, Barbara Cartland. She wrote like 700 and something books, what In her life. Yeah, and 23 in one year was her record and I posted in my community and I'm like, yep, that's, I'm not going to beat that. Unless they develop some sort of immortality, I'm not hitting the 23, at least not solo I did. I think I've released 19 or so with my co-authors one year.
Speaker 1:I did like one of them myself 23 in a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she wrote 23. When was this? I don't know. I didn't look her up. It's one of those things that it could be total bullshit. It's from the internet, but it's within the realm of possibility, because I was writing 10 or 12 a year when I well sorry, I think my best year I did nine myself and I did that for three years or so and some of my books were really long, like Crusader. I did nine or so that year. It was 306,000 words. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean that's six books right there, yeah, for a normal person.
Speaker 2:That's what I would have broken it up into.
Speaker 1:Part one, part two, part six. In that same year I wrote Southern Watch one and two. It was like 50,000 or 60,000 and 90,000, 92,000 words respectively. I mean, if you looked at it it was like you could break up a bunch of those into smaller novels and what most people would consider to be a novel, and it'd be close to 23.
Speaker 2:Do you ever wonder? This is total tangent. I don't know what I was thinking, why this made me think of it, but I was thinking word count and you were just mentioning word count. Have you ever thought about if, let's just say, publishing one away, like it just disappeared and somebody was in charge of finding you a new job, what do you think they like? You had no input, what do you think they would have you do?
Speaker 1:Is Memelord an option? I don't think it pays much Shit. Poster, I could run a vicious blog One where my job is basically to make fun of people all day long, something like Ace of Spades, that's really. I mean, that's all I got. I sold insurance and more investments and mortgages, but I wasn't particularly great at it and I sure didn't enjoy it. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think what made me think of that was we were hanging out with some people and sometimes I wonder what people see when they look at us Like you don't really have a real job. You have, like you like the C-cargo pants and the t-shirt, well, but you know, some people are like man, you've got the life, and I won't deny that one. I love my life, I really do. But at the same time, like I wonder what people think about when they look at me like oh, he doesn't qualify for anything else, or whatever.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:And I know my friends at least.
Speaker 1:I hope they don't think that way.
Speaker 2:You know, probably family.
Speaker 1:Family is like well, I remember when I don't know, I just sit around all day and plays with words. Yeah, anyone who's been to our houses would be like oh God, these guys are way overpaid. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you do what.
Speaker 1:Are you sure you don't sell drugs on the side? Oh yeah, I have this feeling you're selling drugs.
Speaker 2:I have been asked that before in the past. Really yeah.
Speaker 1:I have. No one is brassy enough to say that to me, because it always comes down to like oh, that's interesting, you know. And they ask me how many books I've written and I'm like 100 and they're like oh, that explains it. Now I understand the pool with all that fancy stuff around it.
Speaker 2:And while you're playing video games in the middle of the day, sometimes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Most people don't know about that. I keep that real on the DL, yeah, but yes, there's a there's. It's always like when you go to a party or you meet someone and they're like, oh, you're an author. After they find that out, there's always like a sequence of questions after that. Totally, they're the very similar sort of ones like, oh well, what do you write? And I have the canned answer oh, I write fantasy novels. I only make stuff. I just make stuff up. Yep, I say that too.
Speaker 2:Make shit up. I have your idea. That's what I always hear. I hate that one, yes, yeah. I always say well, I'm kind of full of shit.
Speaker 1:So you know that goes on paper. That's good. If I'm being serious, I have an actual answer. But most people don't want the serious answer.
Speaker 2:What are the other questions we get? Now I'm thinking about it how many books have you written? When did you start? Did you major in English in college? Yeah, that is a hard no for me. That's a yes for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always I was completely followed up with and it didn't do me one damn better. Good Right, it actually probably put me off my career path for several years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's English classes in general stopped me from reading for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did it to me too, that Gordon rule that Florida had. I mean 10,000 words of writing assignments per English class, 5,000 for every social studies or history class. What Gordon rule? It's called the Gordon rule. It's a scientific law, or it was at the time when I was going to college and yeah, that was the deal. You had to write 10,000 words of papers writing assignment papers, for every English class you were in, and 5,000 for every social studies or history class. Really, that was so awful, it really drummed the love of writing out of me. I didn't want to do any writing at all after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got. We did not have that in Virginia.
Speaker 1:I did a lot of history papers. I wrote one about Gettysburg, I did one on. I forget what I did in my military history class. It's so long ago. I just make shit up and then forget about it.
Speaker 2:It's funny I say there was not a law in Virginia and yet that's what I did, because I was a foreign affairs major. So same thing writing about history and international relations. Man, I wrote so many papers, man, back then I didn't even have a computer. We had to go to a computer lab.
Speaker 1:Was it Tom Clancy that observed I read one of his books that foreign affairs is really well named because it's just countries fucking each other constantly In one way or another. It's appropriate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's funny because it's foreign affairs and international relations. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:There you go, smacking together. I'm saying that.
Speaker 2:It's funny you may be the only person in the last 20 years that has put that together, because usually inside I'm giggling a little bit.
Speaker 1:You know, because we're word smests for a living, I'm like hee, hee, hee international relations yeah. I'm a dork. International relations is what you wish had happened. On that summer you spent abroad, right, and except there was no abroad, I got food poisoning.
Speaker 2:You were abroad, but there was no abroad. My nephew is in Europe for three months right now. Fucking devil. He just up and decided by himself he was just going to go. I'm so envious, yeah, and it's, I mean, pretty cool, right, you're, you know, early 20s, you just go. You know, he made a little bit of money and it's like these dollars are burning a hole in my pocket. Let's burn this.
Speaker 2:Well, I think part of it was. He was just he kind of needs his own little wake up, right, like he's realized, look, this might not be the trajectory that I think I'm supposed to be on. Yeah, so I'm going to go and throw myself basically at the mercy of Europe. And it was pretty cool because, before you were, europe can be pretty merciful to Americans. So he said, you know, it's funny, he texted me the other day, sent me some cool pictures. I'm like, how's it been? He's like it's been great. There have been some challenges. You know well, because you know you think about it. A white boy, american, all by yourself, language barriers, because he's going all over the place, like all over I okay, so I had always heard this.
Speaker 1:I don't remember if we discussed this or not, but, like in Paris, I learned enough of the language to get by and the people were super nice. Yeah, absolutely. I had always heard that the French are really rude to Americans, but like they were really accommodating. I was shocked and this was in the midst of the strikes and whatnot and I had a lady say I'm so sorry that you came to Paris in this time, like I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip on the subway. Really, like well packed in there, and it's so difficult because there's so many trains that are canceled and people are like shoving to get on. I'm like this is this, is Paris man, this is something did I tell you our story on the subway?
Speaker 2:No, what happened? Paris, so we were, we were going somewhere I can't remember where. We were going to some neighborhood, and we're we, you know, we're on like the third train to get there, and we're sitting on the train and and everybody gets off and oh yes, you did a lady yeah well, there's one final lady, like she gets off, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And then I see her like, come around and come back in. And she and she explains us. She goes hey, this train is now out of service. If you're trying to go to here, you need to go to this platform. And like she didn't need to do that I don't know. No, she just walked on her way and when we had that happen a couple times, which which kind of same thing totally shocked me, because I'd heard all Parisians are totally stuck up.
Speaker 1:No, not really, and funny, like my middle kid was handed my wife's backpack To take care of it while she was doing something else and he left it outside of cafe really. And we were down the street and this guy's like, hey, hey, like ones after us 50 yards or so, catches it's like you left your backpack back there and they've got it inside for you. Did Alicia lose it? She was not happy and that was like and he that he lost a lot. He, he is a brilliant little dude, but like he Forgets his head if it's not attached to it.
Speaker 1:We've got one of those he got. So he spent 30 minutes In Montmartre shopping for like the perfect one of this Parisian like I don't know what you call them the hats with like the Rounded kind of billowy top to it with a little short bill on it.
Speaker 1:Okay, very European and that like Bill Cosby used to wear okay, in his second show, I think where it's like you'd see, if you saw it you'd be like, oh yeah, it's a, that's a European style hat. He finds the perfect one and we have one picture of him with it because he had it at the Louvre and Then he put it in his sleeve and like walked around and like lost it in the Louvre somewhere. Gosh, and I mean four hours this kid had his hat and then it was gone forever. We're like we checked the lost and found. We checked everyone. They're like I'm sorry it hasn't been turned in and that's the luck you know he lost it in the in the clutch of people getting up to Mona Lisa Yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got one of those that it's, and it's funny because I I don't think I used to lose much growing up.
Speaker 1:My have high visibility of like anything that I own.
Speaker 2:I'm super paranoid about me to like I always have a place, like I always know that my wallet is in this pocket. Yes, these are always in this pocket. My phone is right here. I do that, yeah, yeah, always. Retention pat. Yeah, totally same thing with, like, my backpack. I know where everything is in that backpack. I don't put something in a pocket that I usually put somewhere else, but my son, who's 14. Oh my gosh, he lost him. He's not listening, so it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were up in the middle of the summer day.
Speaker 2:I guess you know he had some of those that he bought like hundred fifty dollar beats. No, he left them somewhere and he was like totally non plus about it. Like just like, oh, find them all, go back. And I'm like we're not going back. Yeah, like it's funny, because I wanted to. I don't know if you get this way. I've always had that urge to just jump in and fix things for my kids. I am now to the point where I'm like it's on you, dog. Yeah, it's totally on you. And so he went about three weeks without headphones. And it's funny because this is a son. If it had happened to either of my other kids they would have been devastated. Yeah, him, he just lets it roll back. He is so wired differently than me when it comes and I keep telling Katie, my wife, that is gonna serve him really well in the future. But as a teenager under my roof, that so gets to me. It drives you nuts.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:And I love the boy, but it's like you know we could. You can yell at him and he's just doing it yeah whatever.
Speaker 1:Back to your nephew. Like I I know I told you at the time but like I was ready to keep riding the rails around your arm at our vacation. Adrian says to me the other day she's like I let. London trip was like the best vacation we've ever taken.
Speaker 1:So cool dude. She's like I loved all our trips, but that was amazing. I'm like, yeah, that was, and I was ready to keep it going. Like I told you At the time, I'm like I'm not ready to come back. I'm not ready to start waiting again, I want to just and Alicia told me she's like if you really want to stay, you can stay. I'll take the kids back, and I'm like I should have taken you up on that.
Speaker 2:But you know what? But like that makes me happy, right, because I know I know both of us. I know I have this sometimes, even though I'm excited to go on a trip, there's also anxiety built in, right, like for me.
Speaker 2:Some of the biggest anxieties is transfers, like from the airport to a hotel you know like for me that's always getting from point A to point B, because I I have very good sense of direction. I don't like getting lost, so I want to know where we're going, yeah, and so for me I'm always kind of thinking ahead on that. But to be able to just kind of go whatever, like go wherever we want and that was that was when we were in Paris not having a quote-unquote plan was really nice, because you could just kind of wander my wife would murder us all if we did that.
Speaker 1:in fact, we got to Paris and the first afternoon she's like okay, so what are we doing? Because I she left the trip planning to me and I'm like here are the different options and I had like ten things where I like researched it out and she's like you didn't buy the tickets for, you didn't plan, what did you do? And so, like we had to spend the first afternoon locking down every single thing and I'm like, seriously, I like just going with the flow. Yeah, oh, this is sold out, that's okay, I don't mind, we'll go do something else.
Speaker 1:I can't make it to the top of the Arc de Triomphe because there's a strike. Okay, that's fine, let's walk down the Champs. Eilat's a never mind, there's too many people here getting the latest subway. Let's go over to this place. Um, and I love that style of thing. That's how I've always traveled in Europe. Yeah, and it's benefited me immensely, because it's like I'll go do a couple of things in the morning, I'll come back, I'll read for a little while and then, if I feel like it, I'll go out again in the evening and, especially with Paris, like You're gonna go out in the evening because the restaurants are closed until about 7 o'clock and it's awesome at night.
Speaker 2:It is pretty cool. I mean I will say that I Never felt unsafe no, not in the neighborhoods. I was, no, not in the main areas and it was Beautiful. I mean that you know, like we'd go down streets and they'd have like light strung up, like I know there are sketchy, sketchy area.
Speaker 1:Sure, absolutely, absolutely. But yeah, we didn't go into those it's. It was a little uncomfortable at times because it was like we're walking around the Eiffel Tower and it felt abandoned really, because they had some barricades up and they had done some stuff. Oh yeah, you know, I felt a little uncomfortable there because I like, there's just not that many people around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there was one train station that was not. You're like, this is in fact, I tell you like in the tourist guides, like stay away from this. Yeah, we had to go there and I think it was when Katie and I went just the two of us one time. Yeah, we had to get from point A to point B and there was the only way to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I had. Funny, because someone had had posted on X, which is, you know, formerly Twitter, a Map of the DC subway system. That I saved because it was, like someone, helpfully written ghetto, ghetto, like a bunch of the stops, to just let you know, maybe don't go there. Don't go there, capital Hill totally ghetto.
Speaker 2:I have not been, I've not been on the DC Metro in like 30 years.
Speaker 1:And see, I was planning to ride the DC Metro for our trip this summer that we had to cancel because I had heard DC has a Massive carjacking problem right now. Really, yeah, a lot of, and I had this written down to talk about. Like, the murder rates in a lot of US Cities right now are ticking down for 2023, over 2022. Dc it's up, hmm, san Francisco it's up and Memphis it's up, so like three cities. Everybody else is like wait.
Speaker 2:What is the second one? You said San.
Speaker 1:Francisco, memphis, dc. San Francisco, yeah, yeah, in San Francisco, I think is still not terribly bad. It has other mayhem problems that you wouldn't care for, like the Robber, the mass robberies and whatnot. The complete lack of law enforcement, like I thought we did away with the Wild West, but apparently it's wilder and westerner than ever out there. But yeah, the the, the issues there are are replete and serious and in DC, so it's still not a very safe place to go outside of certain areas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, if you stay like around, you know the mall, yeah, it's. I mean, there's security everywhere and there's cameras everywhere, on, on the mall itself.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of carjacking going on in DC, though it's kind of it's kind of scary, like I wouldn't drive in DC. Well, that's the thing is like okay. So what do you do? You uber your way around.
Speaker 2:We ubered a little bit, we walked a lot. Yeah, we walked a ton and we stayed. You know, we were a couple blocks kind of off the mall, yeah, so we could just kind of go now. We did get a rental car.
Speaker 1:But we're gonna stay in northern Virginia and the idea was to, like you know, take the metro in there yeah. No, that'd be a good way to do it yeah. And because if you kind of stay in the national mall area for like walking around and whatnot, then you're good. But I mean our original plan was to go in July. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Tail of July.
Speaker 1:Like July, 28, 29th, yeah, so then we talked about fall break. But yeah, we're not gonna do that now, we're gonna. That's what we did last fall break. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll spring, I did not love the place we stayed. It was misadvertised and and it was funny because I you know, I I really I don't really leave reviews and Katie definitely doesn't but she left one. She's like look, this was, this was not to the best place, it was like right on the edge of Chinatown and it was like it was actually attached. It was this complex that there was a Walmart. I like like an urban Walmart, oh yeah, in the small footprint building.
Speaker 2:But outside that there was some sketch. I mean I saw multiple drug deals go on outside, outside, outside the the condo complex, and I think what it was was it was a rehab building that was now like not like I would say not maybe mid tier type stuff like product, but I mean it was still right on the fringe and and and it's funny, what do they call that? A level, b level, c level?
Speaker 2:I think it was probably, maybe, maybe B, yeah, something like that. But anyway, like it was fine. But you know you hold on to the kids a little bit tighter and you know you watch that weirdo that's, you know, scratching his head and it's tough because I there's so many places I want to go in the US and some of them are like you almost.
Speaker 1:I mean I was listening to a podcast the other day with my history favorite history guys. The rest is history. One of my favorite authors, tom Holland, and he's talking about growing up in I don't know small town ish, mid sized townish England in the 1970s. He's talking about the reputation New York City had at the time, like in the in the early 60s, late 50s, like New York had a reputation as this gleaming madman. You know metropolis well, you know the capital of finance in the in the world.
Speaker 1:Now that London has seated the title and by the 70s it had become in the title of their podcast is Fear City. Yeah, and they talk about the blackout of 1977 and how it erupted into riots and in looting immediately, how it was just a toilet bowl and how it. You know they didn't talk about how it came back, but they talked about how it kind of trended down. And he was like I had the distinct impression and he said it's just wonderful British accent the distinct impression that if I were to travel to New York City as a child I would be shot immediately. I love Tom Holland. He's so great.
Speaker 1:Not the actor, tom Holland is great to, but the podcast host and author, tom Holland, I did a double take when you said that, yeah, his name is Tom Holland. He's great, he's, he's I actually thought about. He has a book out now in England called Pax, which is the third of his trilogy on Roman history, and I've loved the first two, rubicon and dynasty. Dynasty, as I suppose I would say. And what are they? Just histories of Rome, yeah, so the first one is leading up to Julius Caesar taking over and his death and then Augustus's rise, and so it's the period of transition from Republic to Empire. And then the second one, dynasty, or dynasty, is the first five emperors following Augustus, which are the, the there's a name for them, but they're the, the heirs of Caesar, basically the, that that particular branch of family, julian, the Julian emperors, which the last of them, nero, dies in 8067, 6869 somewhere in there, and he's terrible by then. It's, you know, corrupt, authoritarian. Yep, nero fiddles while Rome burns, and so, anyway, this one picks up and it's called Pax. It's about Pax Romano. Yeah, pick up the first take, give it a read.
Speaker 1:Holland engages with the subject. He's got a witty pin, I would say. His command of it is all very interesting. The third book comes out in America in September. It's been out in Britain for like two months. I thought about saying to one of my, you know, putting an announcement on Facebook to my British fans All right, if one of you clowns wants to buy the British edition of Pax and send it to me in America, I will cross over and send a signed copy of my own book in exchange, or whatever.
Speaker 2:But, I forget it. I'll just wait, pay a $20 extra fee just to get it. Man, I think I think I mentioned the last time, or maybe I've just been sending you text. I have been getting my books from eight books.
Speaker 1:No, I didn't know. You didn't know, you didn't have to, are you oh? My gosh and of course like I listened to us talking about it, but I heard an update.
Speaker 2:There are days that I got like six books in the mailbox I'm like yeah, I was so happy. And now now it's like I've. So I went back and I started with. Well, first I went back because you gave me permission to go back through my audio books.
Speaker 1:And I picked out a couple. I know, I know, but it's so funny, you know.
Speaker 2:I need to like the blessing, but then I went back. W E B Griffin is one of my favorites, so I went back to you, sent me a picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I think I did, yeah, and so now I'm building that collection because when I first listened I actually listened to those when I was still in the Marine Corps I would go to the, to the base library, and I would take out the CDs, the books on CD, oh yeah, and I would listen. I had like an hour commute each way, so I would just burn through those books, yeah, and, and I loved them absolutely. And then I started reading them and so I've loved them forever and I'm hoping one day that my kids will want to read them. Yeah, I don't know, we'll see. But the other one, I matter they look good on your shelves, yeah. The other one, too, was the I think I sent you a picture of this was the book the Last Tribe, which is one of my favorite post apocalyptic book.
Speaker 2:You probably wouldn't like it because it's not. It's probably not gory enough, but it is. It is a. It's really more of a story about family and survival and it was written by Brad manual, who's a, an indie author. Now, this is what you sent me the yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Griffin I couldn't see what's behind the WB.
Speaker 2:Griffin. So he wrote this book back in, I think, 2012. And he had back before. Scott Brick was huge, you know, doing audio books. Narrow, yeah, scott Brick did. That's how I found it and I remember back in the day I actually reached out to the author and I was like, hey, thank you so much. And he answered me back and we had a little conversation. I wish I could go buy the rights to that book now I don't. I don't think he's writing anymore kind of like we've talked about. He's probably gonna got a job, but it's, it's always reading it again.
Speaker 2:And it's, you know, 650 pages and and that was one of the ones I got from eight books and you would appreciate this it's very much the indie version, so it's like it's not. It doesn't. I don't even think it has a copyright page, whoa, yeah. So it's like, oh, it's so, it's a super self published. Oh man, it's great. It's great. You know it's got some typos in there and like some of the first words, but I don't care, I've just, I've really been enjoying this, john.
Speaker 1:Grish himself published a time to kill. I think he did yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like that's the self publishing dream, because it's like back no, before we started, like no one had a story like that, like John Grisham and five other people in the history of thousands of other self published people. It's like if you self published, your actual ability to publish was dead forever. Yeah, and he Andrews talked about that actually because he self published one of his first books. Yeah, and he was talking about you know, we sold 100,000 copies and then we went back to publishers and we're like this is how many we sold. And they're like wow, well, I think you've probably exhausted your demand at this point. So you know, of course we don't want it now, and he keeps going through it.
Speaker 1:And at 200,000, we went back again and they're like we were wrong on that, but you've definitely sold all you can sell now, it's like. And at 400,000, we didn't even bother to go back again. And 600,000, we sold all you can sell now. And it's like and it's like and it's like and it's like and it's like and it's like and it's like and it's like and it's like and it's like and it's like and it's 100,000 later. I mean, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:I he. They had publishing deals. Andy Andrews did, but they did the majority of that work themselves.
Speaker 1:No, this was his first book, which was like, I think it's one where he like got letters from celebrities about them going through their worst trials and tribulations. Yeah, okay, and so this is what is like the first thing he did before he hit big with the noticer. No, the noticer was like fourth or fifth in line. The first one was the precursor to the seven decisions, the traveler's gift. That was the big one that like blew him up. At least I think that's right. Maybe he had others before that that were, that were big traditionally See.
Speaker 2:now, now the indie author who went big is calling Hoover. Yeah, I mean, you can't turn around and not see one of her books. Her books are everywhere.
Speaker 1:I remember when she hit it big, like I think in 2013, 2014, and she was really like when she first hit it big in like as an indie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't know her back then.
Speaker 1:I've never met her or anything, but I remember we saw her like shoot up the charts. Yeah, not, nothing like this. I don't remember what it was called, like breathless or something like I can't remember what it was. Yeah, you're right, it's. She's in every bookstore now and every like Walmart everywhere has her own stacks. Yeah amazing.
Speaker 2:I can't be anything but happy for somebody like that Because from everything I've heard, she's done it the right way, like she goes out of a way she's always taken care of readers. She, she has a really sad background story. Oh no, just, you know, came up just the the rough way and that's what feeds a lot of her stories. I've read a couple of her books just because I was curious. My daughter, I think, is read every single one of them. Oh my goodness, teenage girls love her books. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:I've seen teenage girls reading her books. I'm trying to remember if I, because there were like a few indie authors of that sort of stripe that came up around the same time, like HM Ward, but she was more like the raw new adult kind of stuff, people that I had like kind of a passing familiarity with, but that's so far out of my genre that I didn't ever really talk with them, I guess, or at least only in passing maybe those romance ladies definitely knew what they were doing.
Speaker 1:Romance and girl. I don't know what you call that, like chick lit kind of, or I don't know Kind of yeah, almost like coming of age, but not I've decided if this next series doesn't take off, I'm going to write a Western A.
Speaker 2:Western.
Speaker 1:What? Where'd that come from? I don't know. I was thinking I was talking to Brian Shea a while back and he's like Western's like are an underserved market and you know, you know you and I talked about it forever. I was like I should write a thriller. It's such a big market, there's so many people who read thrillers and I like actually settled down to do it and I'm like I don't think I can write a thriller, like I just don't have any interest in actually writing the type of thriller that I think would sell and I don't have the energy to write the type of thriller I would want to write, which is a Tom Clancy style thriller, because those are.
Speaker 1:It requires exhaustive detail, so heavy, and it's really hard to get that right where it's like you balance the detail and the readability, yep, um, and so I just don't. I mean, maybe I'll try it at some point. I've sort of have. I would say my book hero is as close as I'll ever get to a Tom Clancy South Riller, um, and it's still a lot faster paced. But I looked at it and I'm like I was watching the quick and the dead the other night and I had an idea for a Western and I'm like you know what Western is surprisingly not that far off of a traditional fantasy in terms of its themes and it's plotting and whatnot. You know it eliminates magic, obviously, unless you're writing a really weird Western. But the you know hero comes to town and has to solve the tyranny problem that this town's folk are dealing with is like a pretty common plot.
Speaker 2:I actually really like that idea because it takes technology out of it. Yes, that that's. Have you run into that at all? I feel like, especially because I'm, you know, we're both writing modern day, Um, you know, now cameras are everywhere, so it's not like you can sneak around many places, Like part of me wants to just go back in time and write stuff back in time. The only thing I'm scared of is people tearing apart Well, that's not what it was back then, or whatever you know, like up yours. Yeah, I know, Um, but somebody who writes kind of Western is like I feel like there's a that Western vibe to it.
Speaker 1:Is Jeff Corson, our friend, but our friend, Well it's it's a little bit more out in the country, kind of yeah, well, it's. It's funny because, like, uh, the girl who ran away, the new series, it takes place in a 2012, 2013. So smartphones it's in rural Arizona. Smartphones aren't ubiquitous like they are now. They mentioned in the thing like, oh, they just put a cell phone tower up on the thing. Maybe I should get you a cell phone to the main character, who's a 17 year old girl. Like trying to imagine a modern book where a 17 year old girl doesn't already have a cell phone and that was conscious choice for me and I suspect one of my beta readers pointed out is like that might be kind of jarring for people if you don't specify that it takes place earlier, and so I might add a note that it takes place in 2013 or whatever. Um, just to like set that that expectation early so that they're not like man, this is really dated stuff, stuff.
Speaker 2:So are you going to go back and read anybody's Westerns?
Speaker 1:No, I didn't do that for fantasy, I won't do that for this. I mean, whatever I, I love Western movies and so I mean, you know, at the risk of making an asset out of myself in the Western genre, I'm just going to put what I put out there and if people like it, great, I'll write more, and if not, that's fine. I've got a story I want to tell and we'll see what when I get around to it.
Speaker 2:I gotta say you kind of made me a little excited with this now.
Speaker 1:Kind of thinking about it. That's what Kelly and Lewis and Shannon said. They're like the way you kind of talk and the way you plot I should that she's like. Kelly especially was like I think you'd probably do pretty well with Western.
Speaker 2:Well, and you do know, those are usually shorter too, yeah, like 60 to 75,000 words Well, even shorter.
Speaker 1:I'm saying like, oh yeah, I'm not going shorter than that. I can't put together a plot. I mean I can, but it's not. I don't want to do that. I got a slightly more epic story in my. 60 to 75,000 words is like three to four weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not a bad book. Yeah, but I'm just saying, traditionally a lot of those have been, you know, because they were what do they call like dice store books?
Speaker 1:Yeah but I mean, like Crossfire Trail and things like that are typically longer. I think, the Louis Lamour who is the gold standard of Westerns. I mean, he had some pretty thick fricking books, Did he really? I think so, I think.
Speaker 2:I've only seen his shorter stuff. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I think like.
Speaker 2:I wrote his memoirs Really interesting. Yeah, yeah, just is. I mean, he was basically a hobo for a while, like he had some crazy stories on.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of authors who have that. Like I was reading. Cormac McCarthy died, I think a couple, three weeks ago and people were talking, story telling stories about him. Like his first wife was like, yeah, we were basically homeless and living in a barn because this lazy f***er wouldn't get a job.
Speaker 2:Stupid writers.
Speaker 1:Well, and it was funny, yeah, they were living in a barn outside Knoxville, tennessee, and I think I think that's right and people would be like offering him a thousand dollars to come speak and he's like, no, I'm not going to do that. He's so lazy, lazier, socially introverted. I mean, oh, yeah, yeah, and I will just say that if you know people offer me money to come speak, I'll probably show up.
Speaker 2:Depends on how far you have to drive or fly Right Exactly. Oh my gosh, oh Westerns. Now you got me thinking about it, man. Because that that simplifies so many things. It does so many things that I'm always worried about, whether it's it's cameras or detection technology, because I always have to think about, because I I don't like glossing over that stuff. So it's either you know the defeated or you got a power grid's taken out, so you know everything goes down anyway, or mask yourselves, or yeah, I mean there's all sorts of ways around it, and I usually do think of ways around it.
Speaker 1:Some of them involve superpowers, because that's what my thrillers involved. That's a magic wand right there. That is a magic wand. But I mean, some of it is just being smart, because it's not like people don't get away with crimes.
Speaker 2:Sure, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And it's not like it's hard to take out a transformer station. You know, it's actually shockingly easy. I've been told by multiple government reports. So but if you're.
Speaker 2:If you're in the Wild West, you don't have to worry about that. You don't.
Speaker 1:You just got to make sure you're skulking with your mask up, so how?
Speaker 2:So you're you've been a fan-ish of that genre. I love that genre of movies.
Speaker 1:I don't read that genre of books. It's the same thing for fantasy. Like I was a huge Lord of the Rings fan, I read the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings and I loved it in college and. But I loved like the video games more. So when I started writing Defender, I wasn't like, oh, let me go read a bunch of fantasy novels. I didn't read any Brandon Sanderson until after I'd written three or four books in the Sanctuary series.
Speaker 2:So how are you going to attack the Western side? Then I'm just curious as to what process you're going to go with.
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean, I'm just going to plot out what I want to do with it. I've got a basic outline in my head already. It kind of came to me the other night of like well, what if I did this and then this and then this and then this, and then you know, the basic character arc are the main character and it's probably pretty basic. It's like a fundamentals, meat and potatoes kind of story. It's not going to like revolutionize the genre or anything and you know I'll just write it when I get around to it, after I finish Southern watch and, you know, get a couple more books in the new series out. See how that one does. Man, now you totally got me thinking. Ryan Shea put this. Good, I'm glad.
Speaker 1:No I remember when he was talking about this mindworm in my brain because he's like there's this one guy and he's got this terrible cover and he's selling his book and it's like ranked super high.
Speaker 2:He showed it to me too, and I can't remember what the guy's name. Every once in a while it pops back in my feet. I'm like this is the guy Shea was talking about.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and it was funny because he's like, he's like it's not even that great, it's like there's just not that much good selection in the Western genre, oh my gosh, did you just come up with an epiphany here, or what? For me it's like I'll put something out there For me. I always kind of wanted to write something in every genre. Yeah, Like I even wanted to write a romance at one point.
Speaker 1:Just try it because there are genre conventions and whatnot, and I'm not sure I have that in me anymore. I think book 52 of Girl in the Box might be the closest I would get to writing an actual romance. But at one point I was like I want to play with every genre and just see how it goes, because that's like. Isaac Asimov was one of my favorite authors growing up. He had a book in, I think, at one point and this was kind of a flex for him, but he would put in his biography that he had a book in every single area of the what's the card catalog system named Dewey Decimal System.
Speaker 2:The Dewey Decimal System Really.
Speaker 1:Every section of the Dewey Decimal System. How many sections were there back then? God only knows. I mean, I'm sure Isaac Asimov knew, but also God. That's interesting. Yeah, I did not know that about him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's in his biography he taught or his whatever you know the blurb about his life. He bragged at one point that he had he had actually a really clever about the author page in a lot of ways Like one of the things he used to say, because he was writing during the height of the communist versus capitalists, america versus Soviet Union thing. He's like Isaac Asimov was born in the Soviet Union, a fact that he immediately rectified by stowing away in someone's luggage and being exported to America. It's like that's a really clever way to overcome the you know people yelling about communism.
Speaker 1:Oh my God that's pretty funny.
Speaker 2:Oh, look at the time. Well, should we wrap it up? I suppose we should. All right, brother, until next time. I'm going to go buy some more eight books.
Speaker 1:Buy more books. I love you eight books.
